Thursday, March 26, 2015

Thursday Twister: What is a Wagonback

This next Thursday Twister comes as a suggestion from Kaibeezy (DT resident logo guru and idea man), and it is a bit more twisted than the average twister. In a normal Twister, we ask for readers to identify cars that contain certain identifiable costmetic features (pop-up headlamps, forward hinged hood, etc) but today we are looking for cars that contain an undefined, but unmistakably odd-looking and noticeable feature -- the wagonback.



The wagonback is a rear end treatment (yikes, sounds personal!) that is squared off, long flat angle of the rear glass.  It is unmistakable - odd-looking and noticeable - not curved or smoothed.  You can see it in such cars as the:

- Saab 99/900 Wagonback
- Audi ur Quattro
- 78-80 Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon Aeroback

The odd and long shape of the cargo door (or "back", or hatch, if you must) is intentional as an expression of mediating two seemingly incompatible functions: speedy-looking-ness and way-more-practical-than-you'd-reasonably-expect-ness. A simple hatch: no. A simple sloped back: no. Some room for debate, but in the Saab, Audi and Cutlass, a plain paradigm. Does it need to open? Clearly not if the Cutlass is accepted.


Are you just asking for a liftback? Sure, because what accounts for that shape? Cargo friendliness, but then whack some off on account of some notion of speedy-looking-ness, and it's obviously a search for a middle ground.   Some cars that it isn't:

-- Porsche 928 (too curved)
-- Porsche 911 (too much emphasis on sportiness)
-- Mazda RX-7 (still too sporty)
-- 1st Generation Mustang Fastback (too much emphasis on style over function).
-- Toyota Supra (too round and too sporty)
-- Golf (too upright)
-- 07-11 Subaru Impreza (too rounded, no attempt at fastback styling)

 Contest rules are as follows: 



1. Only one car per comment (be sure to hit the refresh button on your browser before you post in case someone else has posted since you loaded the page).  Do not nest the replies, just reply to the main post -- if you reply to someone elses comment it should be in reference to his comment and not a new submission.

2. You can post again, but only after someone else posts another car.

3. The contest will end at Sunday, March 29nd, 4pm PST.

4. One submission per generation of car.

5. Each car must be a running/driving car (no clay model prototypes) and at least two must have been built of that particular car (no one-offs). 

6. No anonymous submissions -- pick a name with the Name/URL dropdown.


7.  Kaibeezy is the ultimate arbiter on what is or isn't a wagonback.


Ready....Set...WAGONBACK!

74 comments:

  1. Sorry, but no. A 'wagonback' implies a wagon-sized opening if not a wagon-shaped butt, and that Olds has a trunk - not a hatch - so it fails.

    'Wagonback' was really Saab marketing bovine fecal matter for a hatchback.

    I'm sure that, say, everything from a Saab 9000 hatch to a late BMW 5-series 'Thing' (not the sedans, and not the wagons they won't sell us here, but whatever the other thing is) to pretty much every VW Rabbit/Golf ever built is a 'wagonback'.

    But it's Madison Avenue crap, so I don't want to play that game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm thinking a Honda Crosstour would fit the narrow description originally offered by Saab, as would many other 5 door hatchacks where the hatch opens flush with the bumper?
      [img]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dYm5N-owy_0/hqdefault.jpg[/img]

      Delete
  2. Does the C-pillar have to go all the way back?

    If not, then, keeping it in the Saab family,

    The 9000
    [img]http://www.saabcentral.com/assets/img/features/9000/press_reviews/page4.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i'd say that's a step too far from the premise - there's something about the out-of-proportion C-pillar hanging out back on the saab and audi that confers the ungainliness, whereas the huge angled slab does so on the cutlass - on the 9000, the C-pillar has a certain elegance which the extra glass doesn't diminish

      Delete
  3. 1980 Citation

    [img]http://www.adclassix.com/images/80chevroletcitationx11.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  4. so, i had this vague notion there's something similar about a saab 900 classic, an audi ur, and the cutlass salon that's more than simple hatch-y-ness - an expression of mediating two seemingly incompatible functions: speedy-looking-ness and way-more-practical-than-you'd-reasonably-expect-ness - i'll be up front about this, i'm not exactly certain where the edges are

    there's a famous quote attributed to the 18th century artist/philosopher/all-round-visionary-badass William Blake that i use all the time: You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough.

    let's see what you think orbits aesthetically around those three diagonally-endowed ugly beauties and we will try to approach a consensus - see, this twister isn't so much about finding as many of something as we can, it's about finding the center and its edges - weird!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Weird and edgy! It is like the DT equivalent of abstract art. Personally, I think the 9000, Citation, A7, and Crosstour fit the bill....but I'm not the ringleader of this circus.

      Delete
    2. i'll think about the Crosstour - i'd say the lines on the A7 and Citation are too well integrated and the tradeoff for some notion of practicality was not extreme enough to negatively impact the aesthetics - i'm looking for where the designer has gone too far and made something that looks ooky - Aztek? Gremlin?

      Delete
    3. Great idea for a Twister, Kaibeezy! It's been fun watching what you guys have been coming up with.

      Delete
  5. The absolutely beautiful Audi A7
    [img]http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/2012-audi-a7-rear-hatch-open.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  6. I'll go ahead and just flaunt the guidelines right off the bat. 911 targa with the lifting tailgate. Sporty and may more practical then it has any right to be...
    [img]http://cartype.com/pics/3902/small/911_targa_open.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. that really is a sweet solution - i totally bet that's what the saab 99 team saw in their mind's eyes, and yet it sure didn't come out that way for them

      Delete
    2. I am really struggling to figure out under what circumstances you would ever use that little hatch on the 911. You could not possibly risk resting anything on the engine cover, so how the heck would you put anything in. If these have a vestigial back seat, maybe it is a Baby Ejector?

      Seriously, does anyone here have any experience with this configuration?

      Delete
    3. All 911's have a cruel joke of a backseat, which you use to justify not selling the car when your kids are up to 6 years old. In the Targa when you fold the seat down you get a nice flat shelf. Then, with the hatch open, you can load in quite a bit of light weight stuff. Weight is important since your arms will be fully extended as you stand next to the car and reach in through the hatch. But, you get a lot more useful space than a coupe.

      The real practical purpose is to clean the inside of the glass on the hatch, roof, and sides.

      Delete
  7. Lancia Gamma Berlina

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/yN59WQq.jpg?1[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  8. At the risk of going way off the reservation...Ferrari FF?
    [img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/03/article-2571715-1BE208D000000578-598_634x409.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. FF, yes - it's an odd shape but Ferrari makes it work

      [img]http://i.imgur.com/V5vBYjb.png?1[/img]

      Delete
  9. Tesla fits the bill
    [img]http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/tesla/model-s/2013/lt/2013_tesla_model-s_crg_lt_81713_600.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tesla S, i say no - too smooth - gives up nothing on aesthetics to get that practicality

      [img]http://i.imgur.com/pwRGqXJ.jpg?1[/img]

      Delete
    2. I afraid we're gonna disagree on this one KBZ, cause I think that lack of sacrifice is shared by all the good ones, including the original wagonback Saab.

      Delete
    3. Passengers should have to sign a waiver releasing any parties that actually shut the door and crush their heads.

      [img]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20190644.jpg#dain%20bramage%20400x400[/img]

      Delete
  10. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bjMSYTdi--o

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. C30, i say no - from the back it sure has interesting, polarizing design elements - but from a straight side view you can see it's a normal hatchback shape

      [img]http://i.imgur.com/hTfHmJ4.png?1[/img]

      now, if you want a Volvo in here, there's this 480 - the back window is less angled than i remembered, but in the context of [brick][brick][brick] it stands out

      [img]http://i.imgur.com/hphoIyN.png?1[/img]

      and this 360 GLT

      [img]http://i.imgur.com/KMwwN7A.jpg?1[/img]

      and this Tundra concept

      [img]http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--BHLERiSR--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/19a0f93nlq2axjpg.jpg[/img]

      and this awesome 263 coupe

      [img]https://iedei.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/volvo_263_coupe_prototype.jpeg[/img]

      Delete
  11. 85 seville

    [img]http://www.classiccarstodayonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Cadillac-1985-Seville-Gucci-b.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. no notion of speediness, but sure makes up for it in the ungainliness dept - maybe we need a parallel twister: ugly for any other reason

      Delete
  12. Possibly at the very raggedy edge of acceptable: the Kaiser Traveler.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And I apparently cannot get the hang of posting photos... a href=http://media.motortopia.com/files/25986/vehicle/4c662552ef746/051510GoodguysOrangeCounty317-vi.jpg

      Delete
    2. *Sigh* I give up. HOW DOES THROG COMPUTER

      Delete
    3. No worries, EmmyJ!

      [img]http://media.motortopia.com/files/25986/vehicle/4c662552ef746/051510GoodguysOrangeCounty317-vi.jpg[/img]

      Delete
    4. And...!

      [img]http://www.majorspoilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Top10AlternateHeroesThrog.jpg[/img]

      Delete
    5. Just for your reference, here's the code....removing the asterisks.

      [img*]http://media.motortopia.com/files/25986/vehicle/4c662552ef746/051510GoodguysOrangeCounty317-vi.jpg[/img*]

      Delete
    6. the Kaiser Traveler looks normal from most angles, but check this direct view of the C-pillar with the hatch shut - it shows the extra material they had to add to make this thing work

      [img]http://www.fowlkesrealtyandauction.com/images/west-point-51-kaiser-4.jpg[/img]

      Delete
  13. Alfetta GT / GTV-6?

    [img]http://www.galleryalfa75.altervista.org/cache/alfetta-gt-amp-alfetta-gtv-gtv-gallery/gtv6/alfetta-gtv6-1980_w480.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yeah! - how'd Giugiaro pick that shape?

      Delete
  14. Doesn't fit, but I can't not post this picture.

    Pegaso Cupoloa -
    [img]http://www.joesherlock.com/11-08-53Pegaso.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here is the back of an Alfa Romeo 6C Superflow IV that I took while wandering around inside of the service bays at Fast Cars Ltd in Redondo Beach.
      [img]http://i.imgur.com/dCDLTq3.jpg[/img]

      Delete
  15. Can we just call a spade an Espada?
    [img]http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/06/lamborghini-espada-8.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  16. 2002 Touring

    [img]http://i.imgur.com/QvXoy4P.png?1[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  17. I'm sticking with opens-flush-to-bumper being the key feature of the 'wagonback' otherwise its all manner of hatchbacks.
    A buddy has one of these 5 Series GTs that he got for a fire sale price as his DT and loves it.
    [img]http://pro-tuning.info/wp-content/gallery1/bmw-5-series-gt/bmw-5-series-gt_1.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i'm with you - most noticeable when the hatch is open - looks almost normal when shut - one of those cars where a slight change in the angle of the photo can make a huge difference in the overall impression

      [img]http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201107/2011-2011-bmw-535i-gt-2_600x0w.jpg[/img]

      [img]http://www.autobild.de/ir_img/1/0/6/8/7/9/0/3er-als-Komfortriese-648x432-72c3f07a049e1363.jpg[/img]

      Delete
  18. maybe too rounded, but Datsun Cherry 120a coupe

    [img]http://pics.imcdb.org/0is164/dat120ah1xj.6714.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. nope, that's dead on - never seen one before - clunky!

      Delete
  19. This may or may not count - not very functional
    [img]http://i89.servimg.com/u/f89/11/99/78/42/2_125610.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  20. Rover SD-1

    [img]http://en.rover-club.net/graphics/gallery/full/103_sd1.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  21. [img]http://www.allpar.com/photos/plymouth/1986/turismo.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Was this what you were posting, Kaibeezy?

      [img]http://www.productioncars.com/literature/images/andale11-4-10/25a.jpg[/img]

      Delete
    2. you can't see what i posted? - i can see it fine

      Delete
    3. You can see the image? How interesting! All I see is an error message from allpar.com. It might be that it's showing in your browser because the image is in your cache. But this seems to be a thing with allpar, protecting their images. Does anybody else see what I'm seeing (the allpar error message)?

      Delete
    4. I see the image in Firefox. doesnt show up in explorer

      Delete
    5. Thanks for your feedback, Sean T! Very interesting. Seems to me that it's a cache thing. Make it rain! Oh wait, that's a different kind of cash...

      Delete
    6. I don't see it in Chrome either.

      Delete
    7. So it's not just you. I saw it in the last twister as well.

      Delete
    8. Just testing. Do you guys see this image from allpar?

      [img]http://www.allpar.com/photos/renderings/minivans/700p.jpg[/img]

      Delete
    9. Nope, neither in Chrome or IE. I refuse to flush my cache, and I left the seat up too.

      Delete
    10. I get the allpar error message. Suggest you consider using imgur for these sort of things. Takes 5 seconds to borrow someones image, but the best part is that you can now resize it without ever having to put it on your computer and you can resize it after posting here if it is too wide or small. Very convenient for posting images in comments. KBZ put me onto it, and I'm now a believer.

      Delete
    11. Well, in the very least, we know that the allpar images are not going to work. What's really interesting is that I get that error message ON allpar now. That's some pretty cool coding there. So I tried Kaibeezy's suggestion and here's my first Imgur...uh, image.

      [img]http://i.imgur.com/h5p5UGy.jpg?1[/img]

      Delete
    12. Found an issue with Imgur; it doesn't appear to support PNG. It claims that it's converting it to a PNG, but I just tried it and got a "file type not supported" error message. Or maybe it was just an issue with the particular image I was testing.

      Delete
    13. The Allpar images work for people that have visited the allpar site itself recently. Linked images won't display for users whose IP address is not in the server's recent visitors log.

      Delete
    14. dont think I have ever visited the allpar site, and in Firefox the images from there show.

      Delete
  22. i'm not sure how well that worked, but it was kind of fun and we got a look at some stuff we wouldn't usually see

    if there's a winner, i call it a tie between Zach's Pegaso Cupole and Sean's glonky Datsun Cherry

    if you have any further brain farts, waft them here... and thanks for playing!

    [img]http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7038/6788477696_764b268c7d.jpg[/img]

    [img]http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0287/6800/t/8/assets/blog_strange-history-of-the-Mustang-3.jpg?2430[/img]

    [img]http://carhumor.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Car-Concepts-of-Yesterday-humor-joke-funny-car-concept-4.jpg[/img]

    [img]http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/08/1fcace03c2c2075b099b40a7f72663c28163393a.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  23. DeLorean DMC12

    [img]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Delorean_dmc12_rear.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think Kaibeezy will take this one as a "wagonback", but here's a picture that will display.

      [img]https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8153/7491335976_3c2651286d_z.jpg[/img]

      Here's the code for your reference:

      [REMOVETHISimg]https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8153/7491335976_3c2651286d_z.jpg[/img]

      Delete
  24. It's interesting that nobody would engage with me in my recent ramblings about the difference between a liftback and a hatchback, as they help define what a wagonback could/would be. I suppose it needed to be put in terms of a Twister to get folks to cogitate on the matter. Once again, good job Kaibeezy!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It may be that my frightening countenance scares people away.

      [img]http://www.spookyisles.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Marty-Feldman-as-Igor.png[/img]

      Delete
    2. Interesting. Same as the allpar issue. Here's the error message, "The owner of this website (www.spookyisles.com) does not allow hotlinking to that resource (/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Marty-Feldman-as-Igor.png)."

      Here I am again. We'll see if this Italian site will allow it.

      [img]http://www.cinquequotidiano.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Igor-619x376.jpg[/img]

      Delete
    3. Weird! The original image popped up again! Again, I'm guessing it's a cache issue. In my case, it's extremely low; when I open my wallet, a cloud of dust escapes.

      Delete
    4. How about this one? Do you see this image? Again, just testing...

      [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wPrua9PcrX0/UZ8clStAwjI/AAAAAAAAF9E/fokLvqaf6bY/s400/Chevrolet-Malibu-Maxx-3.JPG[/img]

      Delete
  25. Toyota Celica Liftback. Wagonback or ugly hatchback?

    [img]http://gocar.be/picserver1/userdata/1/22546/VjjUAhgkB/32683454-5.jpg[/img]

    ReplyDelete
  26. datsun B210
    i really want to play along with a picture but i don't get

    use [ img ]http://www.your-image-url.com [ /img ] (without the spaces)

    wha da hell does that mean?

    ReplyDelete
  27. [img]http://i.imgur.com/RUKjVrJ.jpg?1[/img]

    The code would be: [*img]http://i.imgur.com/RUKjVrJ.jpg?1[/img]...I can't write the actual code because it would just display as another image. See the asterisk right after the first bracket? Just remove that and you'd have the correct code.

    ReplyDelete

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